Chaos Churches and the alignment topic
February 23, 2011 
Laenih 
Chaos Churches will be added to Chaos Cities and will welcome red players who want to repent for their sins, or in other words, fix their alignment.
They only open their doors one time per day per sinner since forgiveness shouldn’t come lightly. They are however not too picky on how you repent and are willing to forgive a part of your sins if you pay a certain amount of gold. Killing other players won’t appease the gods of Agon any more to forget your crimes.
Naturally, the Chaos Churches expect to see quite a bit of daily traffic so repentant sinners should be on their guard for other outcasts pursuing the same goals.
Another new feature coming with alignment changes will be that de-buffing others will now count against your alignment. We have been agreeing with you on that matter for a while but the underlying system asked for some in depth coding changes.
We are aware that such adjustments can’t stand on their own and are also working on giving more incentives for players who decide to stay blue.
We’re taking small steps with these changes so that players have time to adapt to the way things will work from now on. All this will lead up to still leaving you the freedom to make the choice but also live with the consequences of your actions.
We are very interested in finding a solution that you are happy with, are working hard on redesigning some of these core features and welcome your thoughts on the matter and working with you to make sure we can provide our players the best experience possible.
Tags: 
AV just proved to read the forums
Instead of straight up gold, why not require players to craft offerings (made out of gold, jewels, q1 mats like blood and hearts) and place these. I know it’s not much difference, but it would be a tiny boost to trade and add a bit of immersion.
/signed
That’s an awesome form of reclaimation. Kind of like the EverQuest tribute system, here player crafted items could be worth a value of gold or points.
A quest to touch some artifact in some city randomly generated (not friendly, of course).
awesome
This is all good. Except for the fact that players have no reason to be blue.
The benefits of the NPC cities and racial capitals are really not there when compared to Player cities.
You really need to BUFF the capitals and NPC cities.
My Suggestion:
- NPC City housing for players in the form of Apartments or communities of small houses. Should have all the slots of cottages.
These should be VERY large communities with at least 100 slots per capital. these surround the Capital Borders and are not Tower protected.
( it is important these are directly on the border of the Capitals.)
- Capital City Master Vendor. This could sort of function as an Auction house but is only a gnome NPC. He acts as a List of all the regional Player vendors and wares. You can purchase and view all the items in the region but there is no Delivery. You still need to run to the specific Vendor and grab your purchase. ( The idea is the capital Housing communities will be filled with player vendors)
-More meaningful Trade routes
-Taverns
Social Hubs in the NPC cities that act and look as Bars where players can get together, buy Ale, gamble and play mini games, these mini games should be the same as Casino type games, slots, cards, Maybe a new Dice game AV creates.
-Sandbox Feature: In the Tavern is a Custom Quest hub. Some NPC that manages Player Quests. Players can go to this NPC, submit a quest by category but also dropping him the reward for completing the quest. It might be, “Collect 5 dragon scales” Reward = rare ore or gold. These quests are Labeled and players are limited to only submitting 2 quests but can complete as many as they would like. There should be some set parameters to this, Such as Pre-made formats
“Collect _ items and Recieve _ Reward” Players would just drag and drop the to fill the fields. This will prevent spamming and meaningless crap.
- You need to add in-game Texas Holdem tables. Trust me you will sell 1 million game copies if you add this feature alone. I would sit and bet in-game gold on texas Holdm All day.
I agree with all these points, I especially like the idea of more house locations specifically for blue players around racial capitals. Rather than using deeds, perhaps a real estate auction system would work better. If a house owner’s alignment goes red he could be given 3 days to rectify before being evicted and his house re-auctioned. That kind of system would go a long way toward promoting localized communities outside of clans. I also think an auction house inside racial capitals would be great, so long as they remain local.
The alignment change mentioned in this blog is a great solution and I support it 100%.
/Signed
Expect drop that “-Sandbox Feature: In the Tavern is a Custom Quest hub.”
Replace with a Ransom Board- same idea only Rewards for killing a certain player.
That way Out right annoying PK’s get Bounty hunters on them. Give the vet’s tons of fun and lots of time.
Have them use Quest slots so it’s easy to work into the existing system.
Kill person >> Get Persons head >> turn in Ransom quest at that specific Ransom Board >> get rewards!
As far as the reward goes make the Ransom post cost like 100g To post with additional items/gold up to 5 slots to show how bad you want that fella dead.
They should expire and you lose the Gold but get the Additional Rewards back. Expire times should be like a week or something..
Very good suggestions.
I especially want (in due time) ordinary housing, that I nicknamed Homes or Shelters. Basically, there are tons of buildings all over that could become player “resting homes”.
GUARD TOWERS : a simple fix is the make the damage of a generic ‘pure damage’ type instead of Arcane, so that no one can resist them.
For those who like to attack in racial starter areas : you can still do so by avoiding the towers. Most alternate characters have to leave the vicinity of a starter city to harvest, etc.
Not a bad idea honestly on the whole housing aspect. But you’d still need more houses than that, like not just capital cities but lesser cities as well.
/signed agreed
keep your weird ideas for yourself plz
hell yeah lol
my main issue is that 9/10 times i go red, it’s becouse of a siege and i defended/attacked or because i defending and killed someone attacking me and so on..
Yeah also people who enter your hamlet/city or who steal your mount need to be grey so you can kill them without pointless penalty.
100% agreed that entering any hamlet/city you or your alliance does not own should turn you rogue and the rogue status should last a while so you don’t just stand on the hamlet/city radius line, wait for them to shoot, step out, and they are rogue. It just makes sense that trespassing should be rectifiable by the defending party without suffering consequences.
Very interesting point (rogue when entering a player area your clan is not allied to).
nb: I thought, for a second, that alignment would no longer change based on just killing a blue or red… but I got it all wrong: it is just killing a red that would no longer affect alignment.
Not sure about this new idea yet, sounds way too easy to stay blue and kill whoever you want which makes the whole system pointless. Being blue should be a choice not accessible to everyone.
Couple suggestions to improve on your idea anyway:
How about 1 choas church for each race alliance to increase the pvp at each but also because lore wise it makes more sense, as races have different gods to repent to. And otherwise there are 10 choas cities so its too easy to access.
Have alfar repent at Hintenfau
Orks & mahirim at Espenhall
Humans & dwarves & mirdain at Ottenhall
Gold cost is good because otherwise people will just go naked and not risk anything.
Also people ARAC clans/groups need to be perminantly grey/red, although this change needs to come with a race change option ideally as to not split clans who want to be blue.
Like others have written, it’s a bit to easy to go red, and paying gold is ok in one way, since it results in gold being removed from the server, one of the better gold sinks.
It would however only be an alternative for a portion, while you can stay there and repent over time aswel.
I still believe a timebased system would be more “fare” towards everyone and wouldn’t let some people get off easy. But everyone would have to repent a certain amount of time.
Alternative ways, like gold would then be the “easy” way to regain alignment, like bribing the police…
I do understand tho why you don’t want a timebased system since that’s like “jailtime”, which is something you want to avoid.
So we have stated
- It is too easy to be Blue
- It is too easy to be Red
-There is not point in being Blue
System is pointless
I agree,
/signed
I don’t know about all that.
It doesn’t need to be hard or easy either way, the alignment system just needs to identify to other players on the most basic level whether or not another player is likely to be a threat, friend or foe. Right now the alignment system doesn’t do that very well because it is so easy to exploit with red alts. Just because another player is blue doesn’t mean he isn’t a threat but as the system improves it becomes more accurate. It is not an accomplishment to be blue, or to be red, its simply an indicator of how you act. There doesn’t need to be a ‘point’.
To add, of course it is easy to be blue and red. Want to be blue? Don’t kill blues. Want to be red, go kill blues. Want to go from blue to red? Go repent. It is extremely simple to be where you want to be and that is fine. Like Josh said, it is about indicating behaviors as accurately as possible to supplement a players decision making. The only real point you brought up Tom was that there is no reason to be blue for the most part, but like they said, they are working on giving it meaning.
Blah, can’t edit. Should read “Want to go from red to blue? Go repent.”
Sigh…
Sorry but there are plenty players who live in NPC towns. So yes there is an interest to be blue.
I like pretty much all of the above suggestions.
The bounty hunter board. Yes. People did exploit these in UO. They would wait till the bounty got high then have a buddy kill them. So would have to figure out a smart way of getting around that. Or have no real reward except maybe titles you can earn or points for bragging rights I dunno. But make it so when a red kills a blue and the blue decides not to forive the red that his name and last known location (the coords where he killed the blue) will get posted on the board. Perhaps make it a title game. You gain infamous type titles (like in UO) for killing blues. And good titles for killing reds. And dying to one or the other alignment can lower your prestige. Limit how often you can kill a specific player a day or whatever to gain these titles. To thwart exploiting. Perhaps part of the title can be affiliated to how many people you have killed without dying and reward more prestige to the person who finaly kills you.
Housing around npc cities for blues is nice. Though sucks that people make alt accounts just to gobble up a house spot. (course UO was same way)
I also like the regional vendor that allows you to see the other player vendors and buy the wares but you still gotta go pick it up. Kills two birds with one stone.
The adding pretty good quests for people of blue alignment. Like perhaps build order deeds from UO. Craft such and such like a one time a day thing. Or go kill such and such or turn in such and such. Kinda like daily quests in dungeons but not as lucrative.
The idea about crafting offerings for the gods to repent with at the church. This would be craftable by anyone of course. Made from a decent amount of gold and whatever else. This would take maybe 5 mins to craft. But when placing it on the altar at the church would be a lengthy process like 15-20mins in which times someone can come kill you and take your offering (unless you kill them instead).
This is a very interesting system, and may make chaos cities PvP hotspots which is a good thing in my opinion.
However, I would recommend that the gold increase based off of not necessarily you’re alignment, but your “character skill” status. What I mean is that the higher level your character, the more gold it costs to redeem alignment.
I say this for two reasons. The first is that if the cost is high universally, new players are screwed. On the flip side, if the cost is low, it is no deterrence for veterans (unless you can only gain a small amount of alignment a day). Of course this is just my opinion, and would be a great gold sink for both new and veteran players.
Last but not least, there HAS to be meaningful incentives to be blue, which with the current state of Darkfall, is simply not the case.
I’m eager to see what kind of changes these places will have on the world of Agon.
-Kasmos
How about the people that make alts and just send them to mine ores from hamlets and we go and kill them and screw our alignment ?
I lose alignment each day killing blues that pick the mine.
You should do something like trial accounts shouldn’t be able to mine clan mines at least.
I don’t think it’s fair that people protecting their holdings should pay even more for this.
I hope it’s going to be really cheap if you only have -1 or -5 alignment for beginners sake. Often times, beginners get fooled into killing a blue and they end up red. The current system makes it almost impossible to go back to blue without help from a red.
Hopefully, the new system will be really cheap (like 10 gold) if your alignment is just -1 through -5 or something. It would still be a good experience for newbs because they’ll have to make the journey to the chaos city and also allow them to go back to blue at a cheap price.
In regards to an incentive for being blue, NPC cities and the areas around them (say up to 200 yards or something) should give like temporary stat boosts or something. Like if you kill a red in that area, you get a 12 hour stat buff or something.
I know on the new UO free shard they have a new paladin system for people that specifically hunt reds and get bonuses for it. Perhaps AV should look into that
This post just gave me a warm fuzzy feeling, and with the way things are going it’s nice to see which side your actually supporting. Keep on trucking AV :3
I suggest that when you make a change like this go live, you should reset everyones alignment status. So it starts from there.
When you remove a way to go back, you let everyone go back so they take it from there.
where is the race change?
I’m still waiting for my housing patch…
Could use some clarification on “one time per day” and “per sinner”
“one time per day” Does that mean once per game day or once per 24 hours real life time?
“per sinner” Does it mean that I can only pay my way to blue once or does that mean that only one person per chaos city? Like if Joe Bob went in the church and paid for his sins, would it block me from later coming to try on the same day?
No, what they meant was one time per day as in once every 24h(probably reset with server maintenance) and that is ofc for every player.
so uh, when do these cool changes take effect?
I think I’ll start playing Darkfall again in another couple months. By then, there won’t be a thing in the game that has to be earned, just bought.
I would like to eventually see player run homes, bars, blacksmiths, gardens, general markets, restaurants, etc. in every city that is in Darkfall. This game seriously lacks in housing still.
Maybe if we could use chill at a poker table and wager huge bets someday and a bar someday where the owner always gets a cut. Arena in some places that would work the same way as real life but not be open very often so that people would be gathered from all over Agon. People could join in the audience as well and watch the fights clapping and cheering (and betting).
i have a better idea…. why don’t we make some kind off jails to spent your time. As a real jail this will take a long time (from a couple months to 25 years or even lifetime) and if you have -100 your character will be executed in public and you will have to make a new char
I love the fact that you can make your choice about whether you want to be good or evil. But the problem is that someone can be evil one minute, rape, and decimate you, then the next minute, they can be back to being blue because they either killed someone they needed to kill or because they ‘pay’ to reset.
I think instead of allowing them to easily reset their alignment, I think it should only be reset with time. So if you go red, you’re stuck until you’ve let enough time pass … Or perhaps make the system a little different, if you want to allow donations, why don’t you allow the red players to donate money to new players who need a helping hand (since griefing is one of the major reasons people quit, and no players means no game). If a red player gives a blue player gold, it can help reset their alignment (now, obviously there would need to be restrictions on this, like you can’t give money to the same person twice (the same person can get gold, but it will only help that person let’s say once per a 24 hour period), the accounts can’t come from the same IP address (that mac address shit wouldn’t work), can’t give it to people you’re currently in a clan with or have ever been in a clan with, and stuff like that (and the account would have to be off trial, not on trial) … so it would keep the money in circulation … and don’t have it be a set amount either … let’s say your first kill into red is 5% of your net worth, second kill is 10% of your networth, etc … until you get to the point where you have to give up everything you’ve ganked to go back to being blue. Something like that …
I’m not a fan of the easily revert back to blue idea that’s being put into place. The great thing about darkfall is the fact that you can do whatever you want … it’s like real life. I can go to the grocery store and mug someone in the parking lot …. I can do it, but there are consequences … I can’t just pay to get out of trouble.
And to help out … what about throwing in something like roaming guards that are stacked to the hilt with defense … so they can just destroy people … so, if a red is roaming around and they come across one of these guards, .. the guards can just take them out (and they randomly spawn in random areas, not in pre-defined areas like the other mobs do).
Is it really true that a RED player cannot fight back against an blue agressor without risking even more alignment loss??? That seems at best, very unfair?
I just started playing DF 2 weeks ago, but I really hope THIS isnt
the case.
(As far as I can remember a blue attacking a red in UO, was in practice making himself grey to his target – which is as it should be ofcourse?)
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Got it now, and of course, I still want an alternative.